Good steel? Blog about sharpening Using 9xf steel.

Nice 12-06-2013 21:33

quote: normal knife

In terms of?

djdfy29 12-06-2013 21:39

maybe the comrade is thinking about a katana?

Deman 12-06-2013 21:39

I made it from something similar. The owner of the knife likes it. My impressions are mixed. It rusts and dulls faster than you expect. (I didn’t do chemical oxidation, but in vain). But, on the plus side, even a dull one (it practically doesn’t cut office paper) chews wood with a bang.
That's just my opinion based on experience, nothing more.

teppo 12-06-2013 21:46

I made one from a saw like this at one time. A little soft.

nik ol 12-06-2013 21:54

Most likely 9хф or 6хф.

Udod 12-06-2013 22:19

Needs to be reheated. All woodworking tools are not heated too hard, but the steel is good.

kirsan_kaifat 12-06-2013 22:33

9хф with a high probability of 45-49 HRC

teppo 12-06-2013 22:46

quote: Needs to be reheated.

These canvases are thin and it is not very convenient to reheat them. Just short wedges.

46-rossi-46 13-06-2013 05:39

Thanks everyone!

Va-78 13-06-2013 10:36

quote: Will a normal knife be made from a saw like this?

Yes. We give the mixing thinner and the angle a little larger. And everything works fine.
I don’t agree with the softness - I love the kind of knives that allow me to shape the RK with a velvet file and finish it with a thin stone. With proper honing, it’s OK - even Finnish ones, even kitchen ones.

Shyr3000 13-06-2013 12:24

If you call me, I’ll throw in my 5 cents:
in the photo - a saw for a frame saw, hardness and steel were already indicated above 9ХФ, 45-49 HRC.
Well, now the main ambush: this saw has already worked quite a bit, and has been used up for quite some time, so it will be very difficult to squeeze even 45 units out of it.... only for re-hardening, and this is dancing with tambourines.
I made 4 knives from this saw, none of them are even suitable for peeling potatoes.

TOPIC Minsk 13-06-2013 12:37

I carried this saw for a hardness tester. Showed 44 units, and not a single one more.
I made a machete out of it. But, really, the guy hasn’t been able to pick it up for three months now, so there’s no response yet.
And one friend made a couple of knives from such a saw, and at the same time he cut the cuts with a file. For example, I don’t understand such softness for a knife...

steppehunter 13-06-2013 13:45

Isn't it cemented by any chance? (then it makes sense to sharpen on one side to work with the carbon layer)

vlad27k 13-06-2013 14:16

zone hardening will save the father of Russian democracy, there is no need to cement, the composition of the steel is normal

Shyr3000 13-06-2013 14:17

quote: Originally posted by steppehunter:

Isn't it cemented by any chance?

why the hell are these dances??? if it is possible to carry out cementation, then it is possible to carry out hardening... and 9HF heats up normally

Ulman@Serjan 13-06-2013 17:25

Maybe U7A or 6FKh, the steel is not very good, and the fabric is thin, judging by the photo.

Nikolaich72 13-06-2013 17:51

quote: Originally posted by nik ol:

Most likely 9хф or 6хф.

Post number 6.

quote: Originally posted by Shyr3000:

This saw has already worked a fair amount, and has been used up for quite some time, so it will be very difficult to squeeze even 45 units out of it.... only for re-hardening

I lit a couple of these for myself. To Damascus. When I finish building the forge

Nikolaich72 14-06-2013 05:51

46-rossi-46 14-06-2013 06:32

quote: Originally posted by Nikolaich72:

If you don’t mind, can I insert one of your photos into my topic? I didn’t take a photo of my saws right away, but now they’re all cut up.

Of course, please.

Big Bro 14-06-2013 11:54

The steel is good, but it needs to be reheated; it can be used to make wood cutters.

steppehunter 18-06-2013 22:29

I meant that it could be initially cemented.

sergrussian 27-02-2014 21:08

I made knives from exactly the same saw. Generally excellent for cutting wood, easy to edit and sharpen. Just right for an everyday household knife. Didn’t harden it, didn’t treat it with anything. But they only rust on the road and require little maintenance. Big Bro 28-02-2014 06:23

quote: I made knives from such a saw, I only did zone hardening, you just have to heat it carefully, somewhere until it turns cherry color and it will definitely crack in oil in water

She is glowing with 780 according to reference books, i.e. this is true. In oil, the hardness is good. The cut on this steel seems soapy to me.

Why did Russia fall in love with machetes, khukri, parangs or bolos? After all, in Rus' there was a very good, in no way inferior to cutting and piercing edged weapon - the cleaver. And as a type of cutlasses - short and light broadswords. How to make a cleaver?

Cleaver - Broadsword is not only excellent bladed weapon, but a full-fledged assistant in any campaign - he is sharp as a razor and strong as short sword, reliable and durable if made of the right steel, for example, Soviet-hardened 9HF.

The need for a cleaver-broadsword for a survivalist-autonomous taiga dweller is obvious, so it is unnecessary to list the areas of its application. Separately, it can be noted that the broadsword presented in the video is not a bladed weapon, according to the legislation of the Russian Federation for a separate feature - its “yoke” from the axis of the blade is higher than 15 mm. Sharpening testing in the field revealed everything unique properties steel from which the broadsword is made.

Soviet steel grade 9HF is worthy of special consideration.

Modern steel of this brand cannot be compared with steel Soviet period. Moreover, since 9HF steel was used to cut other steels, its quality life was unprecedented during the Soviet period. It was used not only for cutting other steels. Yes, 9KF steel could not be welded. But the quality, temperature and plastic properties of this steel made it an optimal choice for use on sawmills during logging. Why?

One detail is important here. Namely, the design of sawmills, which led to the fact that there was no one for use in them the best steel than 9HF steel.
So, the design of the R-63 sawmill was specific (it remains this way to this day)), complex, timeless, but not very easy to maintain. If one of the cutting saws broke down, it was necessary to reconfigure the entire saw scale again, which led to downtime of the sawmill, and given that logging in the USSR was carried out mainly by prisoners in the zones, such downtime did not help career growth her bosses. And delivering new saw blades to the wilds was problematic.

In this regard, there is an interesting fact: in some places the R-63 was tuned, paradoxically, by prisoner musicians. The 9xf blades were all industrial grade, the grip in the frame was the same, but the tension gap had a slight play. According to GOST, everything turned out fine, and the service life of the canvases was very decent. But still, sometimes incidents occurred due to the imperfection of the human spirit of the saw set. So, the prisoners, not being able to sharpen steel blades with high quality, or quickly receive them from manufacturing plants, despite the fact that the plan had to be EXCEEDED, came up with the idea of ​​​​using blades made of 9HF steel, which holds an edge perfectly and is incredibly flexible and durable, and for grips insert razors that allow you to tune the frame with a kind of tuning fork: they achieved the same sound of the saw blades in the frame, the frame was started, the service life of the priming was enormous - all the blades were tensioned equally - there was no tension overload on some blades, and a lack of it on others. The service life of 9HF steel on wood is enormous.

R-63 sawmills became a thing of the past as soon as the famous Soviet-made 9HF blades ceased to be produced. Modern ones, declared as saws made from 9HF, do not have nearly the same properties as the old steel: their composition is not the same, the hardening is not the same, and, accordingly, the characteristics are not the same. In some villages and abandoned sawmills, grandfathers still have either whole canvases or fragments of Soviet-made canvases.
Craftsmen, knowing the amazing qualities of that steel, collect them as best they can and where they can - in villages and abandoned areas. Here are its characteristics:

This kind of 9HF steel from the Soviet period can be recommended to any taiga autonomous worker for making a cleaver or knife, since with fantastic flexibility, it has amazing hardness, holds the sharpening of the cutting edge for up to six months (unless, of course, you cut stones and sand) and does not lose their properties in conditions low temperatures Subpolar region, Far North, Siberia and Far East.

There are several grades of tool steels, the pros and cons of which are excellent for making knives. The characteristics of 9xc steel are based on the inclusions of silicon and chromium alloying additives. Which significantly improve its performance. This steel has properties that allow it to be used for the production of components that have severe demands on elasticity, bending resistance and wear resistance.

The range of knives used in everyday life is quite large today. Of course, when choosing a blade in a store, few people pay attention to the grade of steel. Only lovers of edged weapons “suffer” from this. If you see a 9xc knife in a store, you can safely purchase it for your own use. After all, the characteristics of this brand speak for themselves.

This brand is used for the production of measuring and cutting tools. It is made from:

• Drills
• Thread cutting devices
• Milling cutters
• Devices of stamps and marks

And of course knives.

IMPORTANT: The 9xc brand designation indicates that the steel contains 0.9% carbon, and the letters next to the number indicate the presence of chromium (X) and calcium (C).

Analogs

Foreign analogues are:

• 150Cr14
• 90CrSi
• 90CrSi5

Blades made from this steel have proven themselves well in fishing, hunting and mushroom picking. They can be used during tourist excursions. Unlike more popular brands, knives made from 9xc by forging are more reliable and withstand aggressive environmental conditions well.

Tool steels are widely used today. They are highly durable. Thanks to which they have a wide range of applications. Modern industry allows the production of tool steel of several grades. The material described in this article has all the necessary properties for making knives. Their characteristics are several times superior to knives made of bearing steel.

Features of the material

Chromium is used as the main alloying additive in this steel. Its amount ranges from 0.95-1.25%. Chrome makes steel hard and durable. In addition, it protects iron from corrosion. Silicon has a similar effect. The amount of this substance in 9xc reaches 1%. Silicon increases the strength threshold, reducing the level of viscosity and ductility.

The disadvantages of steel are that it is not suitable for welded structures. Only possible way The use of welding for such an alloy is contact welding. It is also important to use steel of this grade in normal temperature conditions. At high temperatures she loses her qualities.

Pros of the brand:

• More uniform distribution of carbides over the cross section. Which gives important advantages to this brand when making cutting objects from it.
• Steel is practically not affected by internal defects. Which can lead to knife breakage and reduction important qualities blades.
• Increased hardness in the annealed state.

At heat treatment temperature control is very important. That is why all work with metal is carried out in electric ovens with automated temperature control.

After all necessary work Structural metallographic testing and X-ray analysis are applied to the product. Although flakes practically do not appear in 9xc steel, it is important to check its structure for quality. After such a check, you can be sure that the steel blade will serve faithfully for a long time.

Hardening and sharpening

1. One of the main disadvantages of this steel is the difficulty of maintaining temperature regime when working with her. Steel is very capricious and demands special approach. Technical hardening of the product - important stage knife production. If the knife is overheated, it will become brittle. And if it is underheated, it will quickly become dull. Sticking to the “golden mean” is an important condition when working with this article.

Heating of the blade should not be done very harshly. A good master will carry out incomplete hardening, but partial. The blade must be subjected to more heat than the butt.

1. Sharpening the finished blade is no less important part in making a knife than its hardening. There are two sharpening options suitable for this steel:

• Under 00. Sharpening using the end of a sharpening wheel until HRC 62 - 64 is achieved. These are the maximum values ​​for metal knives. After which they will find their application where perfect sharpening is important.
• Under 450. This type of sharpening is used for power blades. With which you can chop branches, open canned food, etc. After such sharpening, the blades quickly become dull, but are suitable for more severe use. Knives with this sharpening are considered tourist knives and work well in wild conditions.

Advantages of 9xc knives

Many people choose knives made from this steel because they are not produced by stamping, but by real manual labor. Blacksmiths who work with this steel note its unruliness. But if they manage to curb it, then it becomes the best solution for making knives. And you can be sure that this steel, imbued with living energy and strength, will help create an exclusive and unique knife. Which can be used in everyday life or given as a gift.

May 27, 2019

May 25, 2019

P.S. As a matter of fact, the Sharpening Blog did not stay away from this event...

May 22, 2019

May 20, 2019

May 17, 2019

May 15, 2019

The St. George Ribbon has nothing to do with the Victory of the Soviet people over the Nazi-German invaders, nothing to do with the awards of the USSR and the soldiers of the Red Army, because it was attached to the Order of St. George, which was officially awarded in the Russian Empire (this award has been revived today in the Russian Federation) . They say that you cannot understand Russia with your mind. I appreciate and respect the desire of the inhabitants of modern Russia to honor the memory of those who fell on the battlefield, to express respect for veterans and gratitude to the people who gave everything for the front, but I do not understand the use of the St. George Ribbon for this, which has a very dubious history during the war, a symbol of Victory in which it is they are trying to force it on us.

The farther from the war, the more lies, fables and distortions of memory. The further away from the war, the more they want to quarrel the peoples of those countries that together achieved Victory. The further we get from the war, the more they try to tell us that it is not the truth that is important, but its interpretation...

Millions innocent victims fascism is not forgotten. They are in the memory of mankind forever. Let's honor the memory of the fallen with a minute of silence. AND kind words gratitude for the lives given to us...

Created on 05/08/14, last updated on 05/01/18

Sources: argumentua.com, rkrp-rpk.ru, Wikipedia, Google, george-orden

May 01, 2019

Created on 10/10/14, last updated on 05/01/19

P.S. Feedback, comments, opinions, advice are welcome. Criticism that is not supported by a constructive opinion is regarded as an attempt to drag the author into an unnecessary dispute and will be deleted... Brunette:
- And my husband sent me to the Institute for Noble Maidens, and there they taught me to say “prelesno” instead of “don’t drive me away.”

The brunette's prayer:
Lord, I pray you, give me
Wisdom to understand a man.
Love to forgive him, and Patience for his moods.
Because, Lord, if I ask for Strength...
I'll just beat him to death!

A traffic cop stops a brunette, dyed blonde, in a very nice car, hoping to earn more than usual, and diplomatically asks:
- Why do you think I’m standing here?
The brunette, dyed blonde, answers without hesitation:
- I think that at school you are not in the best possible way did what they should have done...

Announcement:
"Brunette, 90-60-90, height 175 cm, length of the inner thigh - 56 cm, shoulder girth - 114 cm, distance between the eyes - 2 cm, hair length - 34 cm. SELLING ROULETTE."

The blonde asks the brunette:
- How is your personal life?
- Don't ask! Starts with "P" and ends with "C".
-You have a prince?!

Brunettes are smart, they are able to make a career and earn their own apartment and car. And blondes are stupid, so they just give them as gifts.
***

I'm standing in line at the pharmacy. Ahead of me is a pretty girl, brunette.
A bald grandfather spent half an hour studying the packaging of some medicine,
Finally, he decides to buy it. Everyone breathes a sigh of relief. Queue
brunettes. She hands the pharmacist a pre-prepared amount of money and
so timidly, in a low voice, he says: “Please give me the packaging.”
condoms and Pentalgin for headaches. And after a pause he adds:
- What should I do? I don’t want to, but I have to.

A blonde, a brunette and a redhead are in 3rd grade. Who has bigger breasts?
- The blonde's. She's 18.

So what kind of work actually has the right to be called professional, and what kind of amateur work?

To understand this issue, we must take into account that professional work is usually called work performed by a person for whom it is a profession and the main means of earning money. Whereas the activity of a person for whom it is an interesting and favorite hobby in his free time and not a means of earning money in another profession is usually called amateur.

Profession (from Latin professio) - type labor activity the person who owns the complex special knowledge and practical skills acquired through specialized education, training, or experience that enable one to perform work in a specific line of production for direct and specified compensation. Usually the source of his existence. (Wikipedia)

If you try to connect words professional And professionalism with a profession, there is also a direct connection here - a profession means work for the purpose of earning income and livelihood.

So, if you are a photographer by profession (for example), then your earnings, and therefore the well-being of your family, directly depend on the quality and volume of services provided, so you are interested in supporting and improving the level of your skills and your client base.

It is the profession that allows you to constantly engage in your work, daily practicing old ones and acquiring new skills and experience. Of course, the material incentive also plays an important role here, which forces you to take on sometimes thankless work.

Not always and not everyone’s profession coincides with what they love, but if this happens, then the person puts his soul into his work. Perhaps this can be called a small miracle. But, oddly enough, miracles also occur in our time. In any case, a professional is a person who earns money through his profession. If your profession is a photographer and you work as a photographer, then your photographs are considered professional, but if you are a car mechanic by profession, then your photographs will be amateur.

A professional (from the English profes) is a representative of a profession or any person who earns a living by a specific professional activity. Also, etymology defines a professional as a person of a certain profession who has a reputation as a reliable worker. (Wikipedia)

But every person has a personal hobby that he loves, to which he devotes his free time and invests his money in it. But which does not affect his earnings from his main profession.

Gradually, devoting his free time to his favorite hobby, a person himself acquires new knowledge and experience, which can be comparable to or higher than the level of a professional working in a field similar to his hobby.

Such a person will still remain an amateur because for him it is only favorite activity, who occupied it free from professional activity time. But if an amateur in his hobby can achieve high level mastery and new income will become more important for him than his main job, then he can become a professional by making favorite hobby with his new profession.

An amateur (from the French amateur) is a person who is engaged in a certain activity, training or research, regardless of the source of his income. In other words, this is a person who has sufficient funds and free time to be interested in any subject without using your amateur knowledge and skills to make a living from it. (Wikipedia)

Above I mentioned financial incentives. If for professionals it comes first, then for amateurs it is love that motivates them to do what they do.

If in his work a professional is often limited in time and his choice, then an amateur passionate about his work has to a greater extent freedom, chooses only what is interesting to him, and thanks incl. and in creative (and not only) moments, he can sometimes reach greater heights than a professional.

Most likely, for his activities, an amateur will need good mood, while for a professional it is the material incentive that will force him to work in an orderly and systematic manner, to look for an approach to each client and study his needs, to delve into all the nuances, to calculate the deadlines for completing a task, even to plan another vacation your family, etc...

I often visit technical forums, where there is a discussion not only of any completed work, but also of its technical aspects. And I noticed a long time ago that the words “professional” and “professional work” are found very often, while I cannot remember the use of words such as “amateur” and “amateur work”.

Perhaps there is a psychological factor here, when, being essentially an amateur in some activity, a person cannot call himself that? Or are these cases banal prejudices with a false, without any reflection, judgment about the essence of the issue?

Right now I don't have an answer to these questions. Perhaps next time I return to this conversation, I will have something to write about these issues.

Good luck everyone and have a nice day!

ZAT(Dnepr, Ukraine)